✨ Introduction
🌿 In this profound and rare dialogue, Master Woo Myung engages in a deep conversation with Reverend Joe Gattis, exploring the nature of the Universe, Truth, God, sin, and resurrection.
Taking place on the eve of Easter, this dialogue bridges perspectives from Christianity and universal Truth, revealing a deeper understanding of spiritual concepts such as original sin, salvation, and eternal life.
✨ Rather than focusing on belief alone, Master Woo Myung explains that true salvation comes when one becomes one with Truth, the Universe, and God.
This conversation challenges conventional thinking and invites readers to reflect on the true meaning of rebirth and enlightenment.
📖 Original Writing by Master Woo Myung
A Special Dialogue Between Woo Myung and Reverend Joe Gattis on Truth and the Universe
- This is a special dialogue between Master Woo Myung and Reverend Joe Gattis on the subjects of the Universe, Truth, death, and the true meaning of resurrection. It took place on the eve of Easter 2003.
Joe Gattis : What is original sin?
Woo Myung : Original sin has existed since the moment human beings began distinguishing good from evil. Good and evil exist because man believes they exist. Out of all creatures, only humans distinguish good from evil. Therefore, it is the thought with which we distinguish good from evil that is original sin.
JG : The reason I practice meditation is to gain peace of mind – to get the eternal peace I am seeking. I am convinced that this is possible through cleansing the mind.
WM : Do you know where God is?
JG : God is everywhere.
WM : Have you seen God? You, too, can see God once your mind has been cleansed.
JG : It is impossible to see the image of God.
WM : I can see God clearly and so can everyone here around you.
JG : I was told that finding one’s true self is about waking up from my own dream. I am still asleep and have yet to awaken from my dream.
WM : Human completion cannot be reached unless you become God.
JG : Where did Truth come from?
WM : Truth has always existed as it is. It existed before the Alpha and will continue to exist after the Omega. Truth is God. Both the Big Bang and Expansion theories are incorrect in that the universe did not become bigger due to explosions.
JG : I think God existed before the Big Bang and that God created the universe. I think the Big Bang, too, is an act of God.
WM : God, who is the infinite Universe, has always just existed. It did not form or become bigger by the Big Bang.
JG : Since I was a child, I have tried many ways to reach Truth, just as I have tried through Christianity. The reason this meditation method is obviously good is that one can very effectively reach Truth within a very short period of time. So am I to understand that Truth, Heaven, and the emptiness are all one and the same?
WM : They are all completely the same.
JG : I had always thought that one could go to Heaven only after death, but you have said that this earth becomes Heaven when one dies while one is still alive. Do we continue to live here even though our bodies die?
WM : Your soul and spirit is what keeps on living. You can welcome Jesus in only when your mind has become the mind of Jesus; only then are you able to become Jesus. There is only one sin in this world, and it is to not believe in Jesus and to not become him. Jesus is thought to have reached completion because he died on the cross and thus become one with God. However, it is when man dies while he is alive that he may reach completion. Jesus reached completion because he died for Truth. Now is the time when everybody can be born as God and live.
JG : The Bible also says that all sins can be forgiven except one – not believing in God. When a disciple asked Jesus whether a heathen was a friend or an enemy, Jesus answered that a heathen was not an enemy if his teachings were the same as those of Jesus.
WM : Now is the time for everyone to become Jesus. There are two problems in modern Christianity. The first is that Christians believe in the Jesus who died two thousand years ago instead of believing in the true Jesus. Secondly, they do not truly repent their sins. It is only when one repents that one can hear the voice of God. True repentance is absolution. A person who believes in the true Jesus will be born again in Heaven while he is alive, and he will live a heavenly life – an eternal life – there. Jesus and Gautama spoke of the true Jesus and the true Buddha; now is the time for everyone to actually become the true Jesus and the true Buddha.
JG : What is a ‘savior’?
WM : To be a savior means to redeem people of their sins. Cleansing your mind is the same as seeking redemption.
JG : Will the Jesus who lived two thousand years ago come again?
WM : No, Jesus will not come again – he has always been here. But man has managed to obscure Jesus with his mind because he has not repented his sins. When we cleanse our minds and have thus been absolved of our sins, we become one with Jesus, and this is salvation. When we seek redemption with our hearts, God answers from within us. We must believe in the God within. And when we seek redemption, the world is bound to become one. After all, we cannot be born in Heaven unless we, ourselves, become Jesus.
JG : Do you believe in Jesus?
WM : Which Jesus do you mean?
JG : The Jesus who died on the cross.
WM : I do. However, I believe in the Jesus who has existed before Abraham. The problem is, people believe in the Jesus who died two thousand years ago. They do not believe in the true Jesus. Furthermore, people do not truly repent their sins to God. In fact, repenting properly would be all it would take in order for the whole world to become one. Does this fully answer your question?
JG : Yes.
WM : Believing in the true Jesus is what needs to be emphasized. The true Jesus, not the image of Jesus, is Truth.
JG : Was Jesus the son of God?
WM : Yes. Anyone who dedicates his all for God is the son of God. The Christians call God ‘Heavenly Father’ when they pray, don’t they? Indeed, you, too, are the son of God.
JG : Who is the God who you believe in?
WM : God is within me and He is the whole Universe. There is not a single thing that is not God, and all things that exist are the children of God as well as God, Himself. God is the infinite Universe; God is the Universe that has existed before and beyond the infinite universe – before the word ‘universe’ even existed. The Sun, stars, Earth, and all of creation did not originate from a physical existence, but from the infinity of the Universe.
JG : What is Truth?
WM : The infinite Universe is Truth. The foundation of Truth is called God, Buddha, Allah, etc. All of these names refer to Truth. The original Mind – the original nature – is Truth.
JG : If the Universe is the empty void, then Truth is too, right?
WM : Do you think that the infinite Universe is something that actually exists or does not exist?
JG : It exists.
WM : That existence, in itself, is everything. The original Universe – the place of God – is the empty void, but our bodies and minds exist, don’t they? In Christianity, the Body of the Universe is called the Holy Spirit, and the Mind of the Universe is called the Holy Father. If you were to practice this meditation and find the true Body and Mind of the original nature, then that Body and Mind would be you. When a person eliminates his body and mind, he can then return to the true Body and Mind; only when one’s body and mind have become the infinite Universe is such a thing possible.
JG : How can one reach the Universe?
WM : When one repents. It is when a person is cleansed of both his original and personal sins that he can become the Universe.
JG : How can one truly repent?
WM : When one completely offers oneself over to the infinite Universe. What a person deems as being his ‘self’ consists only of his body and mind, and when he gives them up, he can become the infinite Universe.
JG : Is resurrection really possible?
WM : Consider this: when everything in the universe disappears, what is left?
JG : Nothing.
WM : The infinite Universe, itself, remains. If this notebook, here, were to totally burn and disappear, what would remain? If you were to disappear, what would remain? Would the infinite Universe remain or not?
JG : It would remain.
WM : Then who is that?
JG : That is me.
WM : Does the infinite Universe die?
JG : It does not.
WM : Indeed, that is you, and that is what it means to be ‘resurrected’. Although one’s human body dies, the true Body and Mind remain as the infinite Universe. That is what it means to be reborn. Do you believe in the infinite Universe?
JG : I know now that I have the infinite Universe inside me. I had never heard anything like this before. Is there such a thing as karma?
WM : Sin is karma.
JG : Is karma not the thoughts of man?
WM : Yes, it is. The reason everybody has his or her own thoughts and ideas is everyone has different karma.
JG : Is God ‘love’?
WM : God is the greatest love there is. The greatest love is to become one.
JG : People think that without true love, we cannot become the children of God.
WM : There is no love in man’s mind. In truth, even his acts of charity are done with the mind that he is performing a good deed. Only God can truly love.
JG : Are love, Truth, and the Universe one and the same?
WM : Yes.
JG : What happens when our bodies physically die?
WM : A person who has the Body and Mind of the Universe will live eternally in Heaven, while a person who doesn’t will not be able to become free from the thought that he – as an individual – is who he is.
JG : I’ve now come to realize that I currently live bound to my own individual self. I want to cleanse my mind and live in Heaven. What will happen to my memories after I die?
WM : After death, a person knows nothing. But if he were to try, he could know everything. Even though you have eliminated your memories (through meditation), you can still remember, can’t you? Eliminating one’s memories merely means to eliminate whatever conceptions one has attached to those memories.
JG : What would happen if I were to see God?
WM : When you see God, ‘you’ will die, just as it is written in the Bible. The ‘you’ that was once bound to your past conceptions will die, and you will be born again as God.
JG : I understand that we come from the Universe and that we return to it after we meditate. But how come there is the ‘present life’? The Universe is Heaven, so if we were indeed from Heaven, why didn’t we just stay there? Why have we come to this world in this body?
WM : To have remained in Heaven, and thus in a state of animitta, would have held no meaning, for man would have subsequently remained a non-material existence. To be born again as a material nimitta existence, to live eternally, and to save everything in existence – such are the purposes of this meditation. To save all creations in existence is the ultimate aim of this meditation. From the Universe’s point of view, everything is the child of God and is God, Himself. Everything in the Universe was originally created perfectly in God’s Land, but the consciousness of man is dead due to his original and his personal sins. It is through absolution that man can be born into Heaven, and it is by the will of God that every creation is saved. The Universe is originally the empty void, which exists on its own and exists as it is. Because man exists, his self exists, trees exist, and flowers exist.
JG : I see that being born has great meaning in itself.
WM : For sure. Birth, itself, has great meaning and so does practicing this meditation.
JG : I see. Where is the Universe?
WM : It exists here as it is, and it simply exists of its own accord.
JG : If this reality is merely a dream, where does the true reality – the true foundation – exist?
WM : It exists in Heaven. But where is Heaven?
JG : Heaven is here.
WM : Yes. You will know Heaven when you’ve come to it.
JG : Will a person still have his memories even after he’s thrown them away?
WM : Yes.
JG : Then will a person still have emotions even after he meditates?
WM : He will have emotions, but he will no longer dwell in them. So although he is happy, he does not dwell in his happiness. He will have no delusions and will live on as God.
🌠Reflect at Santa Clara Meditation
At Santa Clara Meditation, teachings like this dialogue are experienced directly.
🌿 Through meditation:
- One understands the nature of Truth and the Universe
- Goes beyond religious concepts to experience God within
- Learns the meaning of true repentance and resurrection
✨ True resurrection is not after death—
it happens when one transcends the false self and becomes the Universe itself.
